Forums of the Libertarian Left

this is epic win.

"Experts [are these the same experts who told us to invade Iraq?]speak of another worry": Apparently we believe in "vague radical movements, loosely called anarchist". And we're "anachronistic", presumably because governments no longer oppress people. It's a knee-slapper, albeit depressing.

On the other hand, why would they attack something unless they were deep down afraid of it?

"On the other hand, why would they attack something unless they were deep down afraid of it?"

1. Ignore it. It'll go away.
2. If it doesn't go away, kill it or beat it up.
3. If it's become too strong to kill or beat up, marginalize it.
4. If it's too popular to marginalize, co-opt it.

This is how all States work, all religions, and all other bullies.

manbear2pig wrote:this is epic win.

You are being sarcastic, right? There is nothing in that article that speaks in favor of the anarchists (be they violent, non-violent, Greek, non-Greek, etc.). All the article suggests is that the politicians are nervous and fearful of riots, which represent a form of warfare that puts the politicians in a no-win situation but does not hearken the collapse of the state. There is nothing in the article that suggests positive change ahead. No, breaking windows is not positive change.

francois tremblay wrote:1. Ignore it. It'll go away.
2. If it doesn't go away, kill it or beat it up.
3. If it's become too strong to kill or beat up, marginalize it.
4. If it's too popular to marginalize, co-opt it.

So we're at stage 3, then!

hobnobus wrote:You are being sarcastic, right?

I'm not expecting the media to portray anarchism positively. I'm referring to the fact that they actually believe anarchism is on the rise, which they would stridently deny unless it was indisputably true. Most people don't form their opinions from the media giants anyway, so if they are aware of an anarchist resurgence, that's a heckuva good start.

Personally, I'd rather gather strength and support without them knowing. Less chance of crackdowns or pre-emptive strikes that will arrest me and others for being 'terrorists' or some other ridiculous lie.

manbear2pig wrote:So we're at stage 3, then!

Nope, we're still at stage 1, at least in North America.

manbear2pig wrote:this is epic win.

"Experts [are these the same experts who told us to invade Iraq?]speak of another worry": Apparently we believe in "vague radical movements, loosely called anarchist". And we're "anachronistic", presumably because governments no longer oppress people. It's a knee-slapper, albeit depressing.

On the other hand, why would they attack something unless they were deep down afraid of it?

I've blogged this article and also the infoshop news that the Anarchists have taken over the union offices.

http://news.infoshop.org/article.php?st ... 7114151179

manbear2pig wrote:this is epic win.

"Experts [are these the same experts who told us to invade Iraq?]speak of another worry": Apparently we believe in "vague radical movements, loosely called anarchist". And we're "anachronistic", presumably because governments no longer oppress people. It's a knee-slapper, albeit depressing.

On the other hand, why would they attack something unless they were deep down afraid of it?

Experts speak of another worry, which is the seemingly anachronistic resurgence of vague radical movements, loosely called anarchist, which hark back to the destructive ideology of Mikhail Bakunin, the 19th-century Russian revolutionary, and to the rebellious rhetoric of the 1960s and 1970s.

I like how they make Bakunin sound like he was Pro-"leading people to the firing squad". Not that I would expect any better.

Actually, I get a more soviet union or Che Guevarra vibe out of the article's reference to Bakunin. It kinda makes you think of the "Anarchists" as "violent, hippy, commie pinko, soviet sympathisers."

wombatron wrote:It gets better towards the middle. Pretty bad, in general, though. Does anyone know anyone with a SA account?

i do, whats up?

Hi All,

I know this reply comes rather late (taking into account that the topic was posted almost a year ago) but I just had to voice out a couple of things as I couldn't believe my eyes when reading the initial post and a few of the replies.

I can't believe that you have the nerve to actually make the comments that you make, taking into account that you obviously use anarchism in your daily beliefs and ways of life. So.. you who have these beliefs, have the nerve to imply that Greek Anarchists are "proud of their country".... taking these actions for "the good of Greece" or as I read "have language barrier problems"....

I myself am half Greek, I wasn't in the country when all these riots took place, but I did have friends that took part in peaceful walks to voice their troubles for the way the government and authorities act (without going into details).

Due to the fact that the mass media obviously didn't have any reason to point all these PEACEFUL protests that took place, as half of the country was, as they claimed, on fire, you just put everyone in the same sack?!!!

Believe me, there are a lot of people in Greece that believe in anarchism as a way of life and are not violent.... I don't know who it was you spoke to (appologies but I cannot remember the user that posted this..) about a girl that could barely speak English... is this what your problem is??!!!! Is this the level that you put yourself at?

I assure you all here that a lot of the burning that took place in Greece were actions of extreme Nationalists, which take advantage of such happenings (in this instance the murdering of Alex) to create (and obviously very successfully) the idea that it's Anarchists in Greece that burn and destroy everything in their way.

Also, let me point out that it is still not sure that Alex (the boy who was murdered) was an anarchists or anti-capitalist etc...it just happened that he was in that area (you all know it as I can see, called Exarhia).

It's obviously a true shame that most of you here managed to become victims of the mass media miss interpretation of facts and managed to come to your own conclusions, demise other people and their statuses and do this on a public site for many people to read.... very sad to see that the government succeeded and once more it even managed to get people that AREN't greek to believe the same as most people in Greece do, that anarchism in Greece is nothing but violence.

and believe me , I'm not writing this because I am Greek, as I myself have been a victim of racism in Greece, I am writing this because I am a human being, and I am equal to all, whether they can or can't speak English!!

thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak my word....

Sofik there seem to be some language barriers here. It's great to hear another perspective, and you're definitely right that there are many anarchists in Greece that aren't insurrectionists and participated in peaceful protests ("peaceful" being a subjective evaluation on the part of the establishment), but surely you don't mean to imply that the insurrectionist anarchist tendency wasn't a (and quite arguably the) primary ideological mover in the occupations and riots that followed? Of course I wasn't on the ground either, but there's been such a wealth of first hand reporting in the anarchist movement regarding the greek anarchist organizers involvement in the occupations and riots.

Yes there were nationalists who attacked/counterattacked demonstrators. Yes you're right to point out that Greek anarchists are no more "proud of their nation" than any other anarchists in any other nation. (This is probably where the strongest language and cultural barrier is cropping up. I think people in this forum got a little intellectually lazy -- "oh, you know those greeks, they're awesome, their history is awesome in certain ways from an anarchist perspective, there's a lot to be proud of there, therefor we must ask if the Greek anarchists are likewise aware of how awesome their country is"... sort of thing.)

I don't think that anarchism in Greece is "nothing but violence", however much of the 'violence' that occurred during the December resistance comes from a very real, venerable and storied anarchist perspective on strategy.

(oh, and hey, thanks roman for pointing out this response)

Sofik,

I can't remember exactly what was said in this thread (particularly by me), it happened a year ago. But as someone who has followed the goings on in Athens for the past year and who knows people that took part in street fighting with the police and the Golden Dawn, I can honestly say I have the highest respect for the Greek Anarchists. You must remember that I believe this post was started at a time when there was little to no information coming out of information and people were taking what they can get when they can get it. Everyone was ignorant. Questions needed to be asked and answered.

I believe it was me who asked a question as to whether Nationalism played a role. And why not? I wanted to know at a time when information was short. I needed to know more information about what was going on. Don't be angry for me seeking out more information on why what was happening, happened. Since then I've nailed down the principle facts of what happened and around the time this began last year, I had to argue against so many arm-chair commentators who poured their scorn on the Anarchists for "being nothing but thugs".

Although I always think the use of violence is regrettable, at this point I think it's perfectly justified considering the stories I've heard regarding the attacks by the Golden Dawn (permitted by police); the streetfights, the murders, the bombings of Anarchist and immigrant meeting places and the repression that has since been instigated by the powers that be against Anarchists and immigrants.

I should also point out as someone who did a lot of reporting on this issue that I did correct the statement that Alex, the 15 year old executed by police was an Anarchist, elsewhere.