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Anarcho-Micronationalist from Cleveland

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Anarcho-Micronationalist from Cleveland

Postby Etheleona on Sun Aug 02, 2009 7:16 pm

Hi, this is Etheleona (my net handle, on various communities.)

I'm a panarchist/anarcho-pluralist/micronational-anarchist, which places me on the pan-secessionist side of the spectrum, but I also find value in left-libertarianism. I'm therefore mainly in the middle; the person here with whose views I resonate most closely (that I've read so far) is Jeremy. I enjoy viewing things from different angles and combining different perspectives.

Basically, I take a social-evolutionary approach, based on what would promote the .maximum freedom, civil equality, and general cultural advancement in the long term. A brief account of my thoughts is here, and I have more writings in the works.

I'm also interested in the general study of micronationalism, including historical regionalism and attempts at building voluntary communities as well as futuristic concepts like artificial islands and space colonies. As of now, I am only an armchair micronationalist. I don't own an island or an asteroid. Yet. :grin:

I have a physical handicap and have to write with an Onscreen Keyboard, plus have a slow connection (on an 8-yr. old computer), so may be slow replying. I live in the Cleveland, Ohio area (same town as Brainpolice, eerily enough) and I'd like to meet people in the vicinity, Currently, I am confined to my house for physical reasons and my only contact with friends is through the internet. If anyone is in the Northeast Ohio area, I'd appreciate hearing from you.

Etheleona
O my brethren, not backward shall your nobility gaze, but outward! Exiles shall ye be from all fatherlands and forefather-lands!
Your children's land shall ye love: let this love be your new nobility,- the undiscovered in the remotest seas! For it do I bid your sails search and search!
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Re: Anarcho-Micronationalist from Cleveland

Postby Noor on Sun Aug 02, 2009 7:50 pm

Welcome to the board.

To me nationalism seems to imply the belief that one has a moral obligation to defend his/her country no matter what, but you seem to be using micro-nationalism in a more broader sense, as in simply communities. And I don't see why you'd have to use the term "nation" instead of society or community since "nation" implies some kind of State.

I find some of your other views interesting, but I'll wait until I learn more before making any judgment.
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Re: Anarcho-Micronationalist from Cleveland

Postby Superdog on Sun Aug 02, 2009 8:39 pm

Yo.

I might have to read a bit, as I'm not sure what a micro-nationalist is. Although the idea of space station is interesting, do you ever watch the show Battlestar Galactica? It deals with issues as such, although not heavily.
------------------------------------------------------------
Rise like lions after slumber
In unvanquishable number!
Shake your chains to earth, like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you-
Ye are many; they are few!
--The Mask of Anarchy by Percy Shelley,
recited by women garment workers going on strike in 1909

Sequential Anarchy (my attempt at a blog)
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Re: Anarcho-Micronationalist from Cleveland

Postby Etheleona on Sun Aug 02, 2009 9:45 pm

Hi, Noor. :) Does your name come from David Brin's "Uplift" series?

Yes, I have a broader definition of "nation", which is why I use the prefix "micro": "nationalism" in the Sealand rather than Bismarck sense. A "nation" is any group of people sharing an agreed-upon identity and way of life. A tribe of 20 people (the known minimum) is a nation; so is a bunch of hippies living a neo-tribe, or colonists on a space station, or even a group of people on the internet sharing virtual "space'. "(Micro)nation", in this sense, does not imply compulsory military service, or necessarily require ethnic unity.
O my brethren, not backward shall your nobility gaze, but outward! Exiles shall ye be from all fatherlands and forefather-lands!
Your children's land shall ye love: let this love be your new nobility,- the undiscovered in the remotest seas! For it do I bid your sails search and search!
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Re: Anarcho-Micronationalist from Cleveland

Postby Noor on Sun Aug 02, 2009 11:57 pm

I'd actually never heard of the Uplift series. Noor is a common Arabic name meaning light or glow-- in my case it's derived from my full first name.

That's a pretty unusual definition of the term nation, and as long as you make it clear how you're using it, I'm fine with that.
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Re: Anarcho-Micronationalist from Cleveland

Postby Etheleona on Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:03 am

Superdog.

I saw the original series in the 1970's. I currently don't have a working TV. Is there a new run of the series? If so, what "Issues" does it have in it?

Noor,

Oh, it's your real name. :) It's also the name of a fictional alien species in The Uplift Trilogy.

Many Native American tribes call themselves "nations", even if their population is only big enough to fill one town. The official Canadian term for Native tribes is "First Nations." (I am not a tribalist or primitivist myself, but I support indigenous sovereignty and self-determination.)

I realize, though, that in a non-tribal context it usually refers to the state, which is why I put "micro".in front of it.
O my brethren, not backward shall your nobility gaze, but outward! Exiles shall ye be from all fatherlands and forefather-lands!
Your children's land shall ye love: let this love be your new nobility,- the undiscovered in the remotest seas! For it do I bid your sails search and search!
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Re: Anarcho-Micronationalist from Cleveland

Postby RoyceChristian on Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:22 am

Welcome to the forum.

Personally, I tend to reject nationalism. I see no value in it other than a strange collectivisation. But I guess I'm more cosmopolitan in my attitudes -- without the traditional demand for one 'global' government or whatever it is that normally rolls with the label.

Anyway, an introductory thread is probably too much too quickly. Again, welcome. :wink:
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. -Aesop
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Re: Anarcho-Micronationalist from Cleveland

Postby Brainpolice on Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:59 am

You're from my area!
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Re: Anarcho-Micronationalist from Cleveland

Postby praxthym on Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:17 pm

Hello!
Don't for heaven's sake, be afraid of talking nonsense! But you must pay attention to your nonsense.
--Ludwig Wittgenstein

http://all-paprika.net
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Re: Anarcho-Micronationalist from Cleveland

Postby Etheleona on Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:06 pm

RoyceChristian,

I'm more interested in building new societies and cultures (Nietzsche's Kinderlander) than preserving old ones. But, yes, we can discuss this on the appropriate forums. Nice to meet you.

Brainpolice,

Yes, I am. Same town, too. Did you go to Euclid Senior High? I'm an alumna (class of '84).

And hello to the rest of you.

Ethel
O my brethren, not backward shall your nobility gaze, but outward! Exiles shall ye be from all fatherlands and forefather-lands!
Your children's land shall ye love: let this love be your new nobility,- the undiscovered in the remotest seas! For it do I bid your sails search and search!
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Re: Anarcho-Micronationalist from Cleveland

Postby neverfox on Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:17 pm

Welcome!
Image
A positive and scientific morality, we have said, can give the individual this commandment only: Develop your life in all directions, be an "individual" as rich as possible in intensive and extensive energy; therefore be the most social and sociable being. (Jean-Marie Guyau)
If you can read this, you are the resistance.
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Re: Anarcho-Micronationalist from Cleveland

Postby Brainpolice on Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:18 pm

"Brainpolice,

Yes, I am. Same town, too. Did you go to Euclid Senior High? I'm an alumna (class of '84)."

I actually didn't go to Euclid Highschool, I went to Mayfield Highschool and then an "alternative" highschool called "Eleanor Gerson". Also, I'm not old enough to have been going at the same time as you even if I did go to Euclid Highschool, since I was born in 1984. :razz:
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Re: Anarcho-Micronationalist from Cleveland

Postby Soviet Onion on Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:58 pm

A "nation" is any group of people sharing an agreed-upon identity and way of life. A tribe of 20 people (the known minimum) is a nation; so is a bunch of hippies living a neo-tribe, or colonists on a space station, or even a group of people on the internet sharing virtual "space'. "(Micro)nation", in this sense, does not imply compulsory military service, or necessarily require ethnic unity.


I'm of the opinion that having people conceive of themselves as expressions of some group identity (or "nation"), complete with the elevation and worship of its cultural trappings and inherited "life-ways", especially to the point that they actually make that a basis for political organization, is somewhere between weak-minded clinging to a prepackaged sense of personhood or an as-yet-undiscovered psychological disorder.

But I guess that's just me.
The true, human liberty of a single individual implies the emancipation of all . . . I cannot be, feel,
and know myself really, completely free, if I am not surrounded by men as free as myself.
The slavery of each is my slavery.

--Mikhail Bakunin

There are many who would take my time. I shun them.
There are some who share my time. I am entertained by them.
There are precious few who contribute to my time. I cherish them.

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Re: Anarcho-Micronationalist from Cleveland

Postby Vichy on Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:56 pm

I'm of the opinion that having people conceive of themselves as expressions of some group identity (or "nation"), complete with the elevation and worship of its cultural trappings and inherited "life-ways", especially to the point that they actually make that a basis for political organization, is somewhere between weak-minded clinging to a prepackaged sense of personhood or an as-yet-undiscovered psychological disorder.

That psychological disorder is tribalism and identarianism, which is nearly universal among teh masses.
"The most thought-provoking thing in our thought-provoking time is that we are still not thinking."
Martin Heidegger, What is Called Thinking?
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Re: Anarcho-Micronationalist from Cleveland

Postby Soviet Onion on Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:52 pm

Vichy wrote:That psychological disorder is tribalism and identarianism, which is nearly universal among teh masses.


Yup.
The true, human liberty of a single individual implies the emancipation of all . . . I cannot be, feel,
and know myself really, completely free, if I am not surrounded by men as free as myself.
The slavery of each is my slavery.

--Mikhail Bakunin

There are many who would take my time. I shun them.
There are some who share my time. I am entertained by them.
There are precious few who contribute to my time. I cherish them.

--Anton Szandor LaVey
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Re: Anarcho-Micronationalist from Cleveland

Postby Etheleona on Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:16 pm

It's also the "disorder" that all Homo Sapiens shared during the first 100,000 years or so of their evolution.

The fact is, the notion of "the individual" now current in Western society is an extremely recent innovation. Not, of course, that individuals didn't exist before the Enlightenment -- they walked around, ate, and so forth. But the idea of a person not inherently identified with his or her group, who can intellectually stand outside and critique it on a larger ground, is rather new under the sun. There have always been dissenters, outcasts and hermits, but these categories were generally either defined in relation to some collective, or had to exit society altogether. The notion of a society for the individual rather than the other way around, is new, and is indeed still in the process of being built and articulated.

Labeling tribalism or cutural-nationalism a "disorder" is to discard the vast bulk of our history. I prefer a realistic, pragmatic and naturalistic approach. As human beings, we are what we are; we got here the way we did. It is possible to advocate individualism without demonizing other ways of life. Rather, the old ways can be built upon and gradually opened up to new freedoms, at a pace with which people are comfortable, and new communities can be formed for those who prefer novel designs.
O my brethren, not backward shall your nobility gaze, but outward! Exiles shall ye be from all fatherlands and forefather-lands!
Your children's land shall ye love: let this love be your new nobility,- the undiscovered in the remotest seas! For it do I bid your sails search and search!
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Re: Anarcho-Micronationalist from Cleveland

Postby Vichy on Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:20 pm

Labeling tribalism or cutural-nationalism a "disorder" is to discard the vast bulk of our history.

'Our' history? More like the history of Homo Sapiens, a species which despite - or because of - my close relations to, I have little sympathy for.
"The most thought-provoking thing in our thought-provoking time is that we are still not thinking."
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Re: Anarcho-Micronationalist from Cleveland

Postby Etheleona on Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:31 pm

Vichy,

Are you an alien?
O my brethren, not backward shall your nobility gaze, but outward! Exiles shall ye be from all fatherlands and forefather-lands!
Your children's land shall ye love: let this love be your new nobility,- the undiscovered in the remotest seas! For it do I bid your sails search and search!
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Re: Anarcho-Micronationalist from Cleveland

Postby Vichy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:49 am

Etheleona wrote:Vichy,

Are you an alien?

You miss the point. I am not my species. I am not other members of my species. I am not responsible for the past or present of my species. I am not responsible to my species. There is no intrinsic value to genetic relations.

And finally, specifically, if it came down to Humans or Terminators, I'd vote Skynet any day.
"The most thought-provoking thing in our thought-provoking time is that we are still not thinking."
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Re: Anarcho-Micronationalist from Cleveland

Postby Brainpolice on Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:35 am

discard the vast bulk of our history.


I have no problem discarding "the vast bulk of history" in terms of simply outright rejecting the values and customs that it has dominantly been based on. I don't see any sensibility in a backward-looking appeal to history as something worthy of valueing simply because it is dominant or long-lasting.
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Re: Anarcho-Micronationalist from Cleveland

Postby Aster on Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:06 am

Vichy wrote:You miss the point. I am not my species. I am not other members of my species. I am not responsible for the past or present of my species. I am not responsible to my species. There is no intrinsic value to genetic relations.

On this issue I'm pleased to agree with Vichy entirely.

Vichy wrote:And finally, specifically, if it came down to Humans or Terminators, I'd vote Skynet any day.

Every day, I come closer to believing this. I'm a pessimist by temperament. I'm an optimist by normative political commitments because the only choices are to defend liberalism or to perish without a struggle. And so much has been achieved, and the world is so lovely around us, that it seems impossible that it all might fail. But human history has mostly been about suffering, and reason suggests to me that we are significantly likely as a species to return to such normality.

I usually consider transhumanism to be the perfection of humanism, a conceptualision of what it would truly means to raise the circumstances of homo sapiens to a fully rational, conscious, dignified condition. But the choices I see the world making in our age suggest that the only hope for the humanism is to spiritually and physically isolate oneself from the mass of humanity. Taken by their words and deeds, they are mad; they despise intellectual honesty and consider real passion, love, and independence immoral. I think of everything in my own life that makes breathing more than a duty and remember that most people in this world, if asked, would state convictions which logically imply the destruction of all this, chiefly through patriarchy and religion.

There are a few, a very few, people who want to know and explore and live. They matter unspeakably to me, and I'm so tired of watching this hideous world betray them and leave them to die. But most human beings have their souls beaten out of them in childhood; commanded to follow their parents' myths their minds are broken; commanded to work for others their wills for broken; commanded to repress their desires their hearts are broken. Those who remain will poison and crucify, burn and scrape the living flesh from those who see with their own eyes, while worshipping the fathers and lords and priests who maimed them. In the Enlightenment humanity had one beautiful chance to make the world over again, and I think it very likely that it will throw that chance away- throw it away now, after so many victories won so partially, so narrowly, at at so much cost.

That most of human history has been a crawling mess of ignorance, poverty and slavery, with independent thought forbidden and women treated like domestic animals, means nothing. They will return to it. They will have their flags and totems and churches, and in seeking their own spiritual death they will ensure that others die physically.

The libertarian project was originally about creating a world for people who wished to be able to truly live as free individuals, but libertarianism failed to ground itself deeply and the bulk of the movement has been taken over by mentalities which never knew the soul of individualism and loathe its character and characteristic manifestations. The humanist currents of culture which have allowed for historically unprecedented levels of human freedom and happiness have bled thin and are being rejected by derationalising or rebarbarising societies. Prometheus will be bound again to his rock, Adam and Eve to their curses- and a world will rejoice to see Zeus and Jehovah restored.

Human beings are human only twice- once when they seek natural pleasure, once again in acts of conceptual consciousness. All other times the human spirit is hostage to the demands of convention and tradition which demand the sacrifice of perception and passion and yet hold the social keys to individual survival. The good and the just want always to close these gaps in their prison walls; the essence of the good and the just as most understand these concepts is the physical and spiritual preservation of the group against all other groups and against internal dissidents. Once the last gap is closed and premodern society reestablishes itself, society will become whole, virtuous, organic once again. Everyone will know their place and no one will be alone, and everyone will feel vindicated in their unhappiness.

The terminators are a better option. Please, strap me to a table and replace everything with cyberware. Essence 0 is an acceptable price tag. What is beautiful in human potential does not require community with one's fellow humans on their social terms. Genuine citizenship in the rare liberal society which functions to create a more favourable environment for the self-determined individual is an inestimable value which ought to be appreciated by rational people. In the historical majority of times where this is not the case (and such times are even more absolutely given for those not on top of the social classpile), the illusion of a common good merely naively leaves oneself more vulnerable to witch trials.
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Re: Anarcho-Micronationalist from Cleveland

Postby Etheleona on Sat Aug 08, 2009 11:39 pm

Brainpolice,

I don't think that things should be preserved just because they are old. Rather, it is each generation's task to sift through their inherited memes and decide what to keep, what needs change or adjustment, and what is outmoded. This happens in all socieies, fast or slowly, and with varying degrees of consciousness.

What I mean by "discard" is denouncing all of previous history as though it shouldn't have happened, and as if billions of people should never have been born. Our classic-liberal, individualistic ideals grew out of these earlier cultures and could not have existed without them, just as the crown of a tree could not exist without its trunk and roots. Cultural development is an evolutionary process; each age's knowledge builds upon previous ones. Now, Aster has written in another thread about how , if history had followed a different trajectory, something like the Enlightenment might have taken place in somewhere like China, India, Arabia or Turkey. That would make a fascinating alternate history. Nonetheless, this world is what it is, and I prefer to accept the basic ground it provides and mine it for what is useful in building the new. I think of the past neither as an unshakeable authority nor a loathesome burden, but as a resource.

(Will get to others soon -- I type slow.)
O my brethren, not backward shall your nobility gaze, but outward! Exiles shall ye be from all fatherlands and forefather-lands!
Your children's land shall ye love: let this love be your new nobility,- the undiscovered in the remotest seas! For it do I bid your sails search and search!
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Re: Anarcho-Micronationalist from Cleveland

Postby Etheleona on Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:19 am

Soviet Onion,

In your signature file, you quote Bakunin as saying that he cannot be free unless everyone else in the world is also free (presumably, on the same terms and by the same definiton of "liberty" as himself). Now, if you follow this philosophy, your personal sense of freedom is dependent upon 10 billion other people. That sounds to me like identification with a group -- the population of the Earth is no less a group than any other. (Not counting space aliens like Vichy. :smile: )

In my micronationalist philosophy, people at least have a choice about which group with which they identify, including, if they prefer, a group of one. As I have said, absolute loyalty to a community is not a requirement.

Vichy,

When I spoke of human history as "our", and by implication "your", history, I did not mean that you personally are responsible for all of it, but rather that you, as a human being, contain that history encoded within the structures of your present self. Your body contains 100,000-150,000 years of human evolutionary history within the coding of your genes (along with millions of years of prehuman history). The history of your race and nation (or whatever combination of heritages you possess) is also part of you insofar as it shaped your family background and hence your present life circumstances.

But... it is up to you what to do with all of this. And, you are right, you are are not responsible for anyone except yourself (and any dependents you may choose to acquire.)

Ethel
O my brethren, not backward shall your nobility gaze, but outward! Exiles shall ye be from all fatherlands and forefather-lands!
Your children's land shall ye love: let this love be your new nobility,- the undiscovered in the remotest seas! For it do I bid your sails search and search!
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Re: Anarcho-Micronationalist from Cleveland

Postby Aster on Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:50 am

Etheleona wrote:The history of your race and nation (or whatever combination of heritages you possess) is also part of you insofar as it shaped your family background and hence your present life circumstances.

"Race realism", no?
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